I'm going to pretend the foot thing never happened.
Your answer reminds me of Redeeming Love, where Michael allows Angel to run away from him because God reveals to him that this part of His plan to make Angel love /God/, not just love Michael. That Michael's whole role in romancing Angel and rescuing her or whatever was to make her love God. Which was probably the most intriguing concept I took away from that book, that sometimes in trying to show the love of God, we turn people into idols.
Strictly speaking, I would say no. The people are the external things, outside of ourselves. People are helpful and the actions they take are the environment we live in . . . but people do not MAKE us do things, or change us without our decison making process being involved. The only one who can change a person is God, people are influencing factors, but ultimately people are responsible for themselves. And I know that's a lot to say, but . . . for now that's kind of my opinion. However, the way its worded undermines how much I actually think about what other people do FOR me.
"Communal marriage is kind of a creepy term." It's a lot cooler than that! *humph*
Ah, I see, so we are both right. A matter of poor word choice. I think, God uses the /influence/ of other people to sanctify us. As part of the environment [hello pesky nature v. nurture debate] people have an influence on us, in the truth we perceive and how we respond to it, and God uses that influence to change our hearts.
And yeah, the ultimate heart-changing is God's. [And, people can change their hearts? I thought you were a Calvinist? :P]
Dude, I am so not a calvinist! (neither am I an arminian). At the moment I think that . . . that question is ultimately irrelevant to the individual, because regardless of how you look it at, there is a perceived decision making within the person to believe in Christ. Even if it is God that changes our hearts, it's . . . experientially irrelevant. As long as you know God is sovereign, and you must believe in Christ to be saved, you're set, regardless of all the other stuff.
I like this thought. It kind of reminds me of how loving God allows you to love everyone else. Something about the world and people being in unity with the will of God: the people we love or who love us are really being spoken through by God. Mediation.
Maybe you could say, the body of Christ living in one spirit, instead of communal marriage?
"the people we love or who love us are really being spoken through by God. Mediation."
Precisely :)
"the body of Christ living in one spirit, instead of communal marriage?"
Okay, I could say that, but I was using marriage as an analogy, because "living in one spirit" doesn't quite catch the . . . realizing other human beings as depths of meaning the way "marriage" does. They are committed to one another, that's one part of it, but another is their deep appreciation for one another (which is of course linked to that commitment). So yeah, that's what I meant.
Also, I partially stole this idea from a lecturer I heard at Wheatstone last year, who talked about in heaven people being "married to one another". I think I talked about this in another video . . . I was like "whoa!" But . . . it does make sense, when looked at in a certain way.
A Year Of Questions is a project begun on March 22, 2010, by seven teens who want to be better at asking questions and articulating answers. This blog exists to make it easier to discuss these questions (because a 500 character limit on YouTube comments is rather limiting). Enjoy!
6 comments:
But. God /uses/ other people to sanctify us?
I'm going to pretend the foot thing never happened.
Your answer reminds me of Redeeming Love, where Michael allows Angel to run away from him because God reveals to him that this part of His plan to make Angel love /God/, not just love Michael. That Michael's whole role in romancing Angel and rescuing her or whatever was to make her love God. Which was probably the most intriguing concept I took away from that book, that sometimes in trying to show the love of God, we turn people into idols.
Communal marriage is kind of a creepy term.
"But. God /uses/ other people to sanctify us?"
Strictly speaking, I would say no. The people are the external things, outside of ourselves. People are helpful and the actions they take are the environment we live in . . . but people do not MAKE us do things, or change us without our decison making process being involved. The only one who can change a person is God, people are influencing factors, but ultimately people are responsible for themselves. And I know that's a lot to say, but . . . for now that's kind of my opinion. However, the way its worded undermines how much I actually think about what other people do FOR me.
"Communal marriage is kind of a creepy term." It's a lot cooler than that! *humph*
Ah, I see, so we are both right. A matter of poor word choice. I think, God uses the /influence/ of other people to sanctify us. As part of the environment [hello pesky nature v. nurture debate] people have an influence on us, in the truth we perceive and how we respond to it, and God uses that influence to change our hearts.
And yeah, the ultimate heart-changing is God's. [And, people can change their hearts? I thought you were a Calvinist? :P]
Dude, I am so not a calvinist! (neither am I an arminian). At the moment I think that . . . that question is ultimately irrelevant to the individual, because regardless of how you look it at, there is a perceived decision making within the person to believe in Christ. Even if it is God that changes our hearts, it's . . . experientially irrelevant. As long as you know God is sovereign, and you must believe in Christ to be saved, you're set, regardless of all the other stuff.
I like this thought. It kind of reminds me of how loving God allows you to love everyone else. Something about the world and people being in unity with the will of God: the people we love or who love us are really being spoken through by God. Mediation.
Maybe you could say, the body of Christ living in one spirit, instead of communal marriage?
"the people we love or who love us are really being spoken through by God. Mediation."
Precisely :)
"the body of Christ living in one spirit, instead of communal marriage?"
Okay, I could say that, but I was using marriage as an analogy, because "living in one spirit" doesn't quite catch the . . . realizing other human beings as depths of meaning the way "marriage" does. They are committed to one another, that's one part of it, but another is their deep appreciation for one another (which is of course linked to that commitment). So yeah, that's what I meant.
Also, I partially stole this idea from a lecturer I heard at Wheatstone last year, who talked about in heaven people being "married to one another". I think I talked about this in another video . . . I was like "whoa!" But . . . it does make sense, when looked at in a certain way.
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